Reply to KA about collapsing metadata functionality

1 files changed, 11 insertions, 1 deletions

diff --git a/doc/todo/Multiple_categorization_namespaces.mdwn b/doc/todo/Multiple_categorization_namespaces.mdwn
index dc66a0245..15b97e480 100644
--- a/doc/todo/Multiple_categorization_namespaces.mdwn
+++ b/doc/todo/Multiple_categorization_namespaces.mdwn
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@ I came across this when working on converting my old blog into an ikiwiki, but I
 
 The background: I have a (currently suspended, waiting to be converted) blog on the [il Cannocchiale](http://www.ilcannocchiale.it) hosting platform. Aside from the usual metatadata (title, author), il Cannocchiale also provides tags and two additional categorization namespaces: a blog-specific user-defind "column" (Rubrica) and a platform-wide "category" (Categoria). The latter is used to group and label a couple of platform-wide lists of latest posts, the former may be used in many different ways (e.g. multi-author blogs could have one column per author or so, or as a form of 'macro-tagging'). Columns are also a little more sophisticated than classical tags because you can assign them a subtitle too.
 
-When I started working on the conversion, my first idea was to convert Rubriche to subdirectories of an ikiwiki blog. However, this left me with a few annoying things: when rebuilding links from the import, I had to (programmatically) dive into each subdirectory to see where each post was; this would also be problematic for future posting, too. It also meant that moving a post from a Robrica to the other would break all links (unless ikiwiki has a way to fix this automagically). And I wasn't too keen on the fact that the Rubrica would come up in the URL of the post. And finally, of course, I couldn't use this to preserve the Categoria metadata.
+When I started working on the conversion, my first idea was to convert Rubriche to subdirectories of an ikiwiki blog. However, this left me with a few annoying things: when rebuilding links from the import, I had to (programmatically) dive into each subdirectory to see where each post was; this would also be problematic for future posting, too. It also meant that moving a post from a Rubrica to the other would break all links (unless ikiwiki has a way to fix this automagically). And I wasn't too keen on the fact that the Rubrica would come up in the URL of the post. And finally, of course, I couldn't use this to preserve the Categoria metadata.
 
 Another solution I thought about was to use special deeper tags for the Rubrica and Categoria (like: `\[[!tag "Rubrica/Some name"]]`), but this is horrible, clumsy, and makes special treatment of these tags a PITN (for example you wouldn't want the Rubrica to be displayed together with the other tags, and you would want it displayed somewhere else like next to the title of the post). This solution however looks to me as the proper path, as long as tags could support totally separate namespaces. I have a tentative implementation of this `tagtype` feature at [my git clone of ikiwiki](http://git.oblomov.eu/ikiwiki).
 
@@ -33,3 +33,13 @@ and the tags would appear at the bottom of the post, the Rubrica next to the tit
 
 > Part of my thinking in this is to also combine tags with [[plugins/contrib/field]], so that the tags for a page could be queried and displayed; that way, one could put them wherever you wanted on the page, using any of [[plugins/contrib/getfield]], [[plugins/contrib/ftemplate]], or [[plugins/contrib/report]].
 > --[[KathrynAndersen]]
+
+>> A very generic metadata framework could cover all possible usages of fields, tags, and related metadata, but keeping its _user interface_ generic would only make it hard to use. Note that this is not an objection to the idea of collapsing the fields and tags functionality (at quick glance, I cannot see a real difference between single-valued custom tagtypes and fields, but see below), but more about the syntax.
+
+>> I had thought about the `\[[!tag type1=value1 type2=value2]]` syntax myself, but ultimately decided against it for a number of reasons, most importantly the fact that (1) it's harder to type, (2) it's harder to spot errors in the tag types (so for example if one misspelled `categoria` as `categorica`, he might not notice it as quickly as seeing the un-parsed `\[[!categorica ]]` directive in the output html) and (3) it encourages collapsing possibly unrelated metadata together (for example, I would never consider putting the categoria information together with the rubrica  one; of course with your syntax it's perfectly possible to keep them separate as well).
+
+>> Point (2) may be considered a downside as well as an upside, depending on perspective, of course. And it would be possible to have a set of predefined tag types to match against, like in my tagtype directive approach but with your syntax. Point (3) is of course entirely in the hands of the user, but that's exactly what syntax should be about. There is nothing functionally wrong with e.g. `\[[!meta tag=sometag author=someauthor title=sometitle rubrica=somecolumn]]`, but I honestly find it horrible.
+
+>> A solution could be to allow both syntaxes, getting to have for example `\[[!sometagtype "blah"]]` as a shortcut for `\[[!tag sometagtype="blah"]]` (or, in the more general case, `\[[!somefieldname "blah"]]` as a shortcut for `\[[!meta fieldname="blah"]]`).
+
+>> I would like to point out however that there are some functional differences between categorization metadata vs other metadata that might suggest to keep fields and (my extended) tags separate. For examples, in feeds you'd want all categorization metadata to fall in one place, with some appropriate manipulation (which I still have to implement, by the way), while things like author or title would go to the corresponding feed item properties. Although it all would be possible with appropriate report or template juggling, having such default metadata handled natively looks like a bonus to me.